Deep Dive In Faith
Journey with us as we explore the multifaceted world of Christianity through engaging discussions on contemporary news, powerful sermon insights, and compelling stories of faith. From breaking down biblical teachings to examining how Christianity intersects with modern life, Deep Dive in Faith offers thoughtful conversations that both challenge and inspire believers seeking a deeper understanding of their spiritual walk. We are proud supporters of destiny rescue, A organisation saving children lives from sex trafficking. Donate and help rescue more children > https://www.destinyrescue.org.au/donate/
Deep Dive In Faith
Redefining Tithing: From Obligation to Joyful Worship
What if the practice of tithing isn't as straightforward as many believe? Journey with us as we unravel the complex historical and theological roots of tithing, challenging conventional interpretations and exploring its implications for modern Christian giving. We dive deep into how tithing in ancient Israel served more like a taxation system supporting both religious and governmental needs, and how this context shifts when viewed through the lens of the New Covenant brought by Christ. Our discussion moves beyond simple obligations to highlight a more personalized, spirit-led approach to generosity that aligns with the essence of grace, encouraging you to question how tithing fits into your own spiritual journey.
Throughout this episode, we engage in an enlightening conversation about the evolution of tithing from obligatory agricultural contributions to a heart-driven expression of worship and gratitude. Exposing the differences between ancient and contemporary practices, we question traditional interpretations and consider whether property ownership by pastors aligns with biblical teachings. By emphasizing the importance of being guided by love, cheerfulness, and divine insight, we offer practical examples and advice for cultivating a giving practice that truly reflects your faith and trust in God's provision. Join us in redefining what it means to give and explore how you can make your own giving an act of joyful worship.
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Hey everyone and welcome back to the Deep Dive. So we got an interesting question from one of you guys about tithing and it really sparked our curiosity too. It did Especially its history, like where did this whole idea come from? And you know what it all means for Christians today.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:We dove into a bunch of sermons and discussions from a particular YouTube channel that you guys sent and, wow, there's a lot more to unpack here than we initially thought.
Speaker 2:Definitely.
Speaker 1:Or we're going to be looking at the different types of tithes, like how many were there even, and then you know how they worked in ancient Israel and what that means or doesn't mean for us today. I'm super excited to have you here to kind of walk us through all this.
Speaker 2:Yeah, happy to be here. It's really interesting how often the historical and theological context gets kind of overlooked.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's so true. Like the first thing that really jumped out at us was that you know like biblical dining. It wasn't about money at all. Right, like think about it. Instead of like pulling out your checkbook or your phone to give online, imagine, like bringing a basket of like your harvest to church.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's a good point.
Speaker 1:It was all about those agricultural products. You know your crops, your livestock.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and that's because, you know, in ancient Israel tithing it was more like a system of taxation. You know we're talking about a theocratic nation. So basically the government and the religious leaders were all kind of intertwined and the tithe supported the Levite priests who played a big role in all of that.
Speaker 1:So it was less about, like, personal giving and more about supporting the nation itself, the infrastructure, Exactly.
Speaker 2:And there's another layer to this too the Old Testament. It actually describes three different types of tithes, three, yeah, you've got the Levitical tithe, that one went straight to the priests. Then you've got the welfare tithe and that provided support for like, the poor and vulnerable in society, you know, like widows. And then you've got the festival tithe, which was used to fund all those religious celebrations in Jerusalem.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, it sounds like they took their festivals pretty seriously.
Speaker 2:Oh, they did. And then we even came across this idea of a tithe, of a tithe in Numbers 18 and Nehemiah 10. So the Levites themselves, they were required to tithe from what they received.
Speaker 1:Wow, like a tithe on top of a tithe, they really had this redistribution of wealth thing down, huh.
Speaker 2:They did.
Speaker 1:So okay, if this was like a system of taxation back then, did everyone have to tithe?
Speaker 2:That's a really important question, and the answer is no, only those who owned land or herds within the Holy Land. So think about someone like Peter. You know he was a fisherman Right, he wouldn't have tithed under this system, neither would Jesus, who was a carpenter, or Paul, who made tents.
Speaker 1:Right. So like it really challenges, you know that thought that it was like this universal obligation for, for every single person in the Bible.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:And what about, like the poor? Or widows, yeah, or orphans? They had to tithe too.
Speaker 2:No, they were actually specifically excluded from tithing obligations. It was meant to help them, not, you know, burden them further.
Speaker 1:Wow, that's a that's a good point. That really flips the script on how we often think about tithing today.
Speaker 2:It does.
Speaker 1:But that brings us to you know that really big question. If tithing was all about ancient Israel, what does it mean for Christians today living under a new covenant Right? Does this Old Testament practice even apply to us now?
Speaker 2:That's where things get really, really interesting and that's where the debate really starts to heat up because some people argue that trying to impose that tithe law on Christians today actually puts them under a curse, and this is described in Galatians 3.10.
Speaker 1:Wait, a curse. I remember that verse.
Speaker 2:It says that, like those who rely on the works of the law are cursed, Exactly, and some would say that tithing, as described in the Old Testament, that falls under works of the law. So are we contradicting the message of grace when we emphasize tithing?
Speaker 1:That's a good point. It's like we sing amazing grace in church, but then in the next breath we're talking about this obligation to give a certain percentage of our income. That does raise some questions.
Speaker 2:It does, and some theologians. They suggest that with Christ's sacrifice on the cross, the old covenant laws, including tithing, they were abolished. Instead, we should be focused on giving freely and cheerfully, as we're led by the Holy Spirit, not out of obligation out of love.
Speaker 1:Oh, and there was this story in one of the sermons that really really stuck with me. Oh yeah, out of love, oh, and there was this story in one of the sermons that really really stuck with me.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah.
Speaker 1:A musician. He decided to stop charging for his concerts and just accept donations. And guess what? He ended up receiving more than ever before.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it speaks to the power of generosity, you know, when it comes from a place of love, not fear or obligation.
Speaker 1:Yeah, for sure. So if tithing wasn't a common practice in the early church?
Speaker 2:It's interesting, tithing wasn't widely enforced in churches until the 7th century. That's when Emperor Charlemagne made it legal for the church to collect tithes.
Speaker 1:Wow. So centuries after the early church, it suddenly becomes the norm. That's wild. But what about churches today that teach tithing? Are they like cherry, picking this one Old Testament law and ignoring all the others?
Speaker 2:It's a valid point. You don't see many churches enforcing rules about, you know, not working on the Sabbath or avoiding certain foods. But, tithing that's often emphasized. There's definitely an inconsistency there.
Speaker 1:For sure, and I mean you don't see many pastors asking for a bushel of corn instead of a check, even though that's how they did it in the Bible, and a lot of pastors own property, which seems to contradict that rule about Levites not owning land.
Speaker 2:You know it's another layer of complexity, right? It really makes you think about how we're applying these Old Testament laws today.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's a lot to consider. So we've talked about the history of tithing, the different types and those theological debates about you know whether it even applies to us today?
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And it's clear there are a lot of different perspectives on this.
Speaker 2:Yeah, finale.
Speaker 1:So what's standing out to you so far from everything we've talked about?
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's a lot to take in.
Speaker 1:And how is this all impacting your own understanding of giving?
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's a good question.
Speaker 1:We'll be back in just a minute to keep going with this deep dive. Stick with us, Okay, so we're back and ready to jump back into this whole tithing thing. We've seen that, you know, like biblical tithing. It was a whole different ballgame than what we often see today. Yeah, for sure, but that just leads to even more questions, right.
Speaker 2:It does Like. If we're not bound by that Old Testament model, then what does responsible giving look like? You know what does it mean for us as Christians today?
Speaker 1:Right, like that's the big question, and you know those sermons we've been looking at. They actually had some pretty interesting thoughts about this. Remember how we talked about tithing in the Bible being all about, like you know, bringing your actual crops and livestock, not money.
Speaker 2:Yeah, some of the speakers even went so far as to say like if you really want to follow the biblical model, you should be bringing baskets of fruit to church instead of, you know, writing a check or donating online.
Speaker 1:I can just imagine the looks on people's faces.
Speaker 2:I know right.
Speaker 1:But I mean they were making a point right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah for sure. The point was to like shift our focus away from this like legalistic way of thinking about giving.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:And move towards something that's like more heart-driven.
Speaker 1:Right, so it's not about hitting that 10% mark.
Speaker 2:No.
Speaker 1:It's about letting the Holy Spirit lead.
Speaker 2:Exactly.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and they even pointed out that even back then, even in ancient Israel, where they did have tithing as like a requirement, Right. There was also this idea of free will offerings.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Which were like totally, separate, totally and given like purely out of generosity.
Speaker 2:Yeah, Right, yeah. So it's like they were saying look, even the Israelites understood that there's a difference between giving out of duty and giving from the heart.
Speaker 1:Totally, and they even challenged that whole idea of not tithing bringing a curse. Yeah, they were basically saying that if we're trying to earn God's favor through tithing, Right. It could actually be like detrimental to our faith.
Speaker 2:Yeah, because it undermines the whole idea of grace that that we get through Christ.
Speaker 1:Right, so we're trying to earn it.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:When actually it's already given Exactly. And they brought up those pastors again who you know preach tithing, but that also own property.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and how that seems to contradict what the Bible says about Levites, you know, not being allowed to own land.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:That really got me thinking too. You know, like how much of our understanding of tithing is based on like tradition and maybe not fully understanding the historical context.
Speaker 2:Yeah, for sure.
Speaker 1:So if we're moving away from this you know this legalistic view what principles should be guiding our giving then?
Speaker 2:Well, the sermons really emphasize three main things Generosity, cheerfulness and being led by the Holy Spirit.
Speaker 1:Okay, so break those down. For me, generosity, I mean, that seems pretty straightforward, right, like being willing to give freely.
Speaker 2:Yeah, abundantly, abundantly, not holding back.
Speaker 1:Okay, and then cheerfulness. That means like our giving should come from, like a joyful heart.
Speaker 2:Yeah, not at a guilt or pressure.
Speaker 1:But what about that third one, like how do we know if we're being led by the Holy Spirit when it comes to giving?
Speaker 2:That's a great question, and that's where prayer comes in. You know, like actually taking the time to ask God. What do you want me to do with what you've given me?
Speaker 1:Oh, that's good. So it's like a more personalized approach.
Speaker 2:It is.
Speaker 1:Based on each person's you know individual circumstances and relationship with God.
Speaker 2:Exactly.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I'm still thinking about that musician who stopped charging for his concerts. Yeah, me too. It seems so counterintuitive, you know. But it really shows you the power of trust. You know, but it really shows you the power of of trust.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and people feel that you know, yeah, when they're not pressured, it becomes an act of of love and support.
Speaker 1:For sure. Well, I think, I think this is a good place to to kind of pause and take a breath. We've covered a lot of ground here.
Speaker 2:We have.
Speaker 1:But the big question is like OK, how do we actually put all this into practice?
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:You know how do we take these principles like generosity, cheerfulness, being led by the Holy Spirit Right and actually live them out in our own lives.
Speaker 2:That's what we'll get into when we come back. We'll dive into some practical tips and insights that can help you navigate this whole giving thing.
Speaker 1:Yeah, because it can be confusing.
Speaker 2:It can.
Speaker 1:So stay tuned, we'll be right back. Thank you, and it's so clear that this whole tithing thing it's way more complex than a lot of people think.
Speaker 2:It really is. I mean, we saw how tithing in the Bible was. It was so tied to that whole agricultural system in ancient Israel.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:And that whole theocratic government structure they had going on. Yeah, and while giving is obviously super, you know, super important to the Christian faith, it's not as clear cut as some people make it seem like whether that specific Old Testament model of tithing like directly translates to Christians today.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and we've talked about how that real generosity, you know it goes way beyond just following rules or percentages. Right, it's, it's about, about having a heart that's, that's ready to give cheerfully.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:And being guided by by the Holy Spirit, and all of that.
Speaker 2:Absolutely so. So if we're not bound by these, these rigid rules about tithing Right, how do we actually live this out, like, how do we go from just knowing about it to to actually doing it?
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, that's the question. Yeah, and those sermons you know they talked a lot about, about the importance of being led by the Holy Spirit in our giving.
Speaker 2:I did.
Speaker 1:It's not just about blindly following some formula, right Right, it's about actually inviting God into it.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:And, and asking him like OK, god, what do you want me to do with, with what you've given me?
Speaker 2:That's good, yeah, recognizing that everything we have you know our time, our talents, our money it's all a gift from him. Yeah, and we're just, we're stewards of it.
Speaker 1:Right, and it's not just about you know the money. It's about being generous in all areas of our lives.
Speaker 2:Absolutely. You know, like those sermons, they gave some, some really great examples.
Speaker 1:You know, maybe it's volunteering at a soup kitchen or or mentoring a young person or even just being there to listen to someone who's who's struggling right, right, just just being aware of the needs around us, yeah, being willing to share what we have right.
Speaker 2:And then they also talked about, you know, supporting ministries or organizations that that are doing work, that you really believe it right, yeah, so it's.
Speaker 1:It's being intentional with with where your, your resources are going, exactly sure they're.
Speaker 2:They're actually making a difference yeah, and you know they did have some practical tips when it comes to to finances specifically okay one thing they really emphasized was creating a budget, but making giving like a non-negotiable part of that right, so it's not just an afterthought.
Speaker 1:No, you're actually planning for it, yeah, and setting that money aside Right, just like you would for for any other bill.
Speaker 2:Exactly.
Speaker 1:That's good and even though you know having that, that planned giving, is good.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:They also talked about, you know, being open to those, those kind of spontaneous moments of generosity you know where, where God might like nudge you to, to give in a way you weren't expecting.
Speaker 2:Yeah, totally Like. Maybe you feel led to help out a family in need or or donate to you know some kind of disaster relief.
Speaker 1:It's. It's about being sensitive to that to that still small voice and and being obedient. Yeah, you know, even if it's, even if it's not convenient right and, and you know, it's interesting because they said that the true generosity often involves, like an element of sacrifice it does you know? It's.
Speaker 2:It's not always easy, but but it really shows that that we're putting god first it does, and it's it's often in those moments of sacrifice that we experience the most joy and fulfillment. Remember that quote they shared. They said like when we give freely, we release God's abundance into our lives. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's. It's like that whole paradox of of generosity right. The the more we give, the more we receive.
Speaker 2:Exactly but it's?
Speaker 1:it's not necessarily about, you know, getting more money or possessions, it's about those spiritual blessings.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And that sense of contentment.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And just a deeper connection with God.
Speaker 2:It's about aligning our hearts with God's heart. You know which is a heart of generosity and love. Yeah, that's good, god's heart. You know which is which is a heart of generosity and love.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's good. So so, as we're wrapping up this, this deep dive on tithing, we want to, we want to leave you guys with this thought True giving, it's an act of worship.
Speaker 2:It is.
Speaker 1:It's how we show God that we love him.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And that we're thankful for everything he's done for us. Yeah, it's not about rules or trying to earn his favor, you know.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:It's about having a heart that's been changed by his grace.
Speaker 2:Yeah, overflowing with love. Overflowing with love, yeah, and wanting to be a blessing to others.
Speaker 1:Right, and we hope this deep dive has given you guys a lot to think about.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:As you continue to learn about this whole topic of giving and figure out what it means for for you.
Speaker 2:It's a journey for sure.
Speaker 1:Keep, keep seeking God's guidance and let him lead you in, and how you give.
Speaker 2:Absolutely.
Speaker 1:Well, thanks for joining us for the deep dive.
Speaker 2:It's been fun.
Speaker 1:We'll be back soon with another, with another deep dive into into a topic that that you guys care about. Until then, keep learning, keep growing and keep diving deep.